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Rape-as-Romance 
11th-Oct-2011 06:33 am
Dark Eric is Bill

This post has been sort of swirling at the back of my head for a while. This is just a general discussion post, because I think it bears discussing - and my regular commenters I'm sure would love to say what they want in a Sookie-positive environment. :D Plus, this journal is for relieving my head of swirling thoughts, and then opening up the floor to discussion. So I'm going to set out what I think about the discussion subject first, and let you all go to town.

I also want to preface what I'm going to write by saying that first, I'm a criminologist and I've never found anything I've ever actually found so repugnant that I won't read it - including the fantasies and deeds of sadistic paedophiles. On top of that, my older sister has been a swinger since I was four years old, and very, very open about that fact and her activities since I was very young. As a rider to that, I also spent the two years before I entered this fandom in a completely unmoderated forum, where you could say as you please - and people did often - up to and including death threats. There is positively nothing that throws me off completely. By that same token, if you behave badly in the comments of this post, I will not go soft on you, and I will let the comment stand in all of its shameful glory. I was on that unmoderated forum by my own choice. So read and comment at your own risk.

As yet another piece that should precede this discussion, I don't really want to have to tell anyone in the comments, so I'll tell you now. Free speech and the right to say what you please does not belong to rape story writers and readers alone. Everyone else has the exact same right - and I'm exercising that here. Don't bother to tell me that I'm trying to shut someone down...by requesting that this discussion should be shut down because it's too much for the rape story writers to take. It's not in a review, or even on Fanfic.net (where such discussions do get shut down). I didn't bring it to anyone else, and the title is pretty clear what this is going to be about. Don't ask me to judge what everyone else does as worthy - either by approving or disapproving it. I don't report rape fic (which means I live with it tolerantly) so that's all I need to do under the requirements of cultural relativism. I expect others to tolerate this post as well, and will clearly tell you to go fuck yourself in the comments if you suggest that rape-as-romance is allowable under the right to do as you please and say what you like, and this post is not.

Firstly, since there is so much confusion - I've seen it - about what rape is, I'm going to define it, and set it out for those who can't seem to figure out what I'm talking about. I've chosen Australian legislation because I'm familiar with it, and I know what it encompasses - and it is pretty uniform that this is the very least definition of what rape is (some European countries have expanded definitions):

Rape is defined as penetration without consent - and that consent must be freely
and voluntarily be given by a person with capacity to consent to penetration.
Penetration includes oral, digital and penile penetration.

(Informed by The Criminal Code, Queensland, 1899 Source)

That means that when someone says no, and that's rape.
That means that if someone is drunk, drugged or asleep, they don't have the capacity to consent, and that's rape.
That means that if someone is threatened with physical violence or fears for their life, they don't have the capacity to consent voluntarily or freely to penetration, and that's rape.
That means that when someone else consents on your behalf, and you do not, that's rape.
BDSM or S&M are consensual in most 'conventional' BDSM/S&M encounters, and thus, are not rape, even if they roleplay rape - they are formed under logical negotiation and safety procedures and such - and thus informed consent, which is freely and voluntarily given. However, surprise!BDSM or forced BDSM is rape just the same as above, there's no exemption because one participant likes forcing without getting permission first.
Consent is given BEFORE penetration, and thus, rape cannot be negated with an orgasm post-penetration.

I'm going to give an example I've actually seen debated - that of Tara and Franklin Mott on True Blood. Tara could not consent to sex, because it was not freely and voluntarily giving consent - she was kidnapped by Franklin and threatened with violence. That makes it rape. Ultimately, Tara herself says she was raped - and she's the one who gives consent to sex with Franklin, so she'd know. Tara can make out like she had no problem with it if she wants to live (and it's clear Franklin would have had a possibly deadly tantrum if she didn't) but that doesn't make it magically consensual. Any time someone is abducted and they are forced to have sex because it's have sex or get violently attacked and have sex anyway, both acts are rape - by usual definition and by legal definition. They don't really have a choice, and a choice means choosing not to have sex at all.

Furthermore, an orgasm does not nullify rape. It is a myth that rape is never pleasurable. Some offenders use arousal or orgasm to humiliate the victim (showing her she liked it even though she said no) and some use it to make out as if their actions are okay (but I made her cum, so it's fine, right?) and sometimes stimulation is stimulation - wanted or not - and the body reacts. Victims are often shamed on the stand at trial because they were aroused or seen to be lying about the advent of rape if they had an orgasm, and conviction rates are low because of this myth. Orgasm or arousal does not signify consent to sex. Nor can consent be given after the act has taken place.

Now, I have to say, that I have no problems with rape fantasies. I know that there are all kinds of theories as to why rape fantasies happen, and sometimes they can even be part of the proclivities of a rape victim - a way to cope with things (note as always there is no hint of universality in that statement). That's their way of processing it, and that's fine. It is what it is. But rape fantasies are not what I want to discuss here - a piece of rape/ravishment/forced seduction PWP is wholly different from rape-as-romance, and that one is a little more sinister as far as I'm concerned. That's not about sexual desire - a pure piece of porn - that's about relationships.

Rape-as-Romance has far wider implications - it implies that women can find love with their rapists, that forced sexual behaviour is somehow loving, and that women need to be forced into abusive relationships, which if they play their cards right, will turn into loving relationships. That is the root of my problem with this theme.

The implication in the rape-as-romance is that one should always look to being as submissive and sweet as possible, that being loved by a man is the overall purpose of our lives, and the driving factor in our day to day. That it is the woman's job to make a man acceptable to the rest of the population. He cleans up real well after she's taken all the battering he decided to dish out. There's a theme of inherent ownership in it as well - that whichever man decides to get it into his head that a woman's body belongs to him, and he therefore has more right to own it than the woman does.

I think that it provides a fatal flaw in any romantic hero - in that, he's definitely no hero, and he's certainly not romantic. He's pretty out of control and selfish, and I don't think any long term relationship can be built on remembering that first time, when he forced her and refused to listen to her. It's not something to reminisce about - "Remember when we met, and you beat me black and blue and then forced me to fuck you? Good times!". No one tells stories like that, or looks back on that with fondness. No one waxes lyrical about the time that they were forced to do something, or in fear of their lives, or driven into a corner like an animal, and made to comply.

Of course, that's what makes the rape-as-romance more acceptable. There is an idea that the ending is already pre-destined. At the start of the story, the reader is aware that they will end up together, and so it is seen that all is fair in love and war, even rape. In that way, rape-as-romance slips under the radar, and readers don't really want to admit it's rape because what sort of woman would fall in love with her rapist? So instead it's seen as "acceptable forcing" because the guy really wants her, and really wants to fuck her now. The inception of the relationship between the characters is where the guy decided that his needs were more important than the woman's, and started to disregard her from that day forth - until she becomes used to it.

That happens in real life as well - better known as Battered Person Syndrome. Basically the person believes that they're at fault for the violence (whoo, they definitely shouldn't listen to some readers on the hard bite in Dead Reckoning eh) and learns helplessness - so they find it pretty impossible to leave. They do whatever they need to do to get by - making their abuser happy by cutting themselves off from everybody, rather than upsetting the abuser by doing all that needless socialising. Making sure that they're always mindful just in case stuff goes pear shaped, and the abuser ends up hurting and raping them again because the victim won't comply. It even haunts the victim while the abuser is gone/asleep, because there is a belief that the abuser is omnipotent - always watching, always able to tell if they're behaving.

There's a difference between Battered Person Syndrome and Stockholm Syndrome - in the case of the advent of Stockholm Syndrome, the abductor doesn't lay a hand on the victim (or isn't substantially abusive), and whence the sympathy comes from. The idea is that they're thankful to their captors for not harming them - as they anticipated. In the case of rape-as-romance, it's all about the Battered Person Syndrome, because the abuser has laid hands on the victim/partner. The trauma is worse with Battered Person Syndrome - because there are long term knock-on effects of having your psyche completely broken down - including self esteem in the toilet and hypervigilance. Kinda not romantic or loving, and definitely not something fixed by the abuser "falling in love" with you.

In essence, the abuser is always the abuser. Even if they rape and hurt the victim until they comply, they're not in love with them - they're just happy that they've got a compliant slave right now. They can't even make it better by being 'nice' - this is part of the cycle of violence:

Cycle of Violence


Being nice is part of what being an abuser is - it keeps the victim hooked because they think they can resurrect the relationship, despite knowing at the back of their heads that the abuser might hurt them again, when they think they've done enough relationship maintenance. That also encourages victims of battering to presume that they were at fault for what happened to them - and now they've found the "right" formula that stops them getting abused, just as they always hoped. As long as the victim is with the abuser, there is no recovery - the victim will never get better, and the abuser will never change. Rarely, if ever do abusers change over their lifetime - and certainly it's not easy and takes years - but it's almost impossible in the same relationship they were abusing in. In all of the case studies I've read, I've never read of an abuser who stopped, while in the original relationship. It's nigh on impossible to read about abusers who have changed, anyway - most of them stay that way.

While I can understand the need for rape/ravishment scenarios in just plain porn, and why people might read and enjoy them, I can't really decide what is at the root of liking this as a form of romance. Because it's not even vaguely romantic, and is the unhappiest HEA I could conceive of. It's basically taking Sookie away from Bill to put her with a guy a thousand times worse, and making sure she can't get away. All the control, the raping - that's back, but tenfold, and cognisant and willing on Eric's behalf. It turns the behaviour I didn't like Bill for into the behaviour of "Dark Eric" who is really Bill - raping and forcing, but magnified.

I know personally, now that I don't feel forced to continue to review (as I've discussed before, I went through a process of thinking about reviews, who I gave them to and took a while to decide what I wanted to contribute to the whole reviewing process) I'm out of a story as soon as violence and lust get mixed together. As soon as Eric yanks Sookie around, and she thinks how hot he is while he's hurting her, that's end game for me - I don't even consider reviewing to support this pervasive BPS theme. I don't find it romantic when Eric 'jokes' about killing or hurting Sookie - and I don't understand why that's seen as a valid part of romance, to include violence and abuse towards a woman as if it's par for the course, and something acceptable in a relationship with any man - vampire or not.

In the sorts of rape-as-romance stories there tends to be in fanfic, they're based on the idea that free will and consent is gone - the woman (usually Sookie) is often abducted, and forced into a sexual relationship with a vampire (usually Eric), filled with rape. I've asserted in the past that the reason why these stories are attractive to writers and readers is because it's the easiest story in the world to write and read. There's no reason for the heroine to be with the hero, other than she has no choice. No need to build up that pesky desire, or the reasons why she wants to be with him - she wants to be with him because she can't get away. It's a simplistic story to write, and it ends up having boning (or the long-winded build up to boning - while the abuser robs her of her self-worth) relatively quickly. Some shippers love them, because the characters are together from start to finish, and the victim/girlfriend won't be able to get away or have a choice - which is why rape is the way to romance in these fics.

It's making a romance out of the realities of Colleen Stan or Elizabeth Smart, neither of whose lives sound particularly romantic to me. Both of them eventually stopped resisting their rapist, and accepted that they were never going to go home - and were only rescued by outsiders. They didn't learn to love the guy who raped them - they just learned what they should do to make their lives less painful. Both of those cases show how learned helplessness means that women think they can't get away, and how sure they are that their abuser is always watching them - losing faith in family members and the police alike. But neither of their stories are lauded as tales of modern romance - they're seen for what they are - rape, battering and abuse, wherein the offender masquerades to himself that it's about the love she now bears for him.

Rape-as-romance though, usually caters entirely to the rapist, and finally lets the victim reap the "benefits". It's about making sure that the abuser has it all his own way, and when he's finally changed his victim to accept her treatment, she's "rewarded" with more relationship with him. For me, it's kinda awful to read, because I know that it does work oh-so-well. I just don't like to read about my favourite character in the books losing herself to an abusive Eric, and abusive, omnipresent rapist Eric is pretty much opposite to Book Eric, who's been known to be completely absent from Sookie's life for two months.

Often it's justified because even though Eric rapes Sookie, at least he's a better alternative to being raped by someone else. That being raped by Eric is somehow a favour, because at least it's not Bill or Andre. I would posit that a rapist is ugly no matter he looks like, and to be stuck with a rapist has no "upside" that "at least" he's really proficient at raping, humiliating and abusing the victim. Eric is seemingly deemed attractive not because of his good qualities, but because in a world of rather shitty choices, he's the least shitty. Even if that were titillating, it's a pretty poor excuse for romance - "He's the best of a bad bunch" - meaning he's spectacularly shitty anyway, since all the rest of the choices are rapists too, but they're seen as worse rapists.  

What strikes me as bizarrely unusual is that women reading these stories seem to want Sookie to continue in such a relationship. To just comply with the abuser so that she can please him. They want to have a "happily ever after" wherein Sookie is beaten into submission and changed, based on rape and getting abused. I mean, the bias is so much towards Eric that he can openly be a rapist, and still gets the girl, with a whole heaping of being cheered on. Rarely if ever does it become a story that the majority of readers will want Sookie to become powerful enough to escape, or be rescued by someone else - they want her to live it, breathe it, learn to love the abuse.  

I'm divided on why this is though. I'm aware that there are women in abusive relationships who go on the net - they're just like anyone else - and do use the internet. They don't see flaws in the rape-as-romance because that's the way that their own relationship goes - always comply, always grovel, always eat dirt. They parrot that in reviews - telling Sookie to just accept it. In fact, you can find abused women advocating that that's the way to "cure" abusive husbands - to eat their pain, and accept it, telling them that you love them anyway. It's a popular Christian-based treatment system for abuse victims, to love those who abuse us, turn the other cheek and do your wifely duties. I've never heard of it working from any reliable source, but it's something to pass the time while the abuser beats the living shit out of you, and find a way to cope with it by having a gameplan - which is pretty much Battered Persons Syndrome all the way down the line.

Certainly, it's not something that's seen as acceptable when a man is on the receiving end of such treatment. Not many think that Eric's abuse by Appius is hot, nor is there similar relish with the abuse by Lorena towards Bill. Inherent in that idea is that the rape feminises the men - and thus is not hot. It is only hot when a woman is raped and forced to do things, but not so lovely when Eric or Bill is reduced to the status of a mere woman - with how lacklustre they all are. Indeed, there are fics wherein Bill gets raped by a man as a way to reduce him to lesser status of a woman. That's when you really know what the author thinks of Bill...and women....and rape victims. There is sadistic relish in the reviews of stories wherein Bill gets raped (because rape is apparently seen as a just punishment for the non-compliant, and thus deserved), but it doesn't tend to elicit "That's hot" reviews.

But in the case of Sookie, or even OC's receiving such treatment, this is seen as romantically possessive and lustful, rather than scarily abusive. But then, in the world of fanfic, Sookie is usually to blame for all problems anyway, and the majority of doormat Sookie fics (I totted it up out of curiosity - and it's roughly 70% of fic in the past month where Sookie apologises for just being herself and sees herself as a burden to Eric as a theme) she might not get hit, but she still sees herself as author to all of Eric's pains. So that theme is pervasive even without abuse - it's just when abuse is added in, the song is no different.

That makes me believe that the theme is so pervasive perhaps because women like seeing Sookie submit, and rape-as-romance is just an extreme form of that submission. It's what appeals - that a woman should lay down and accept her treatment, even verging onto the extremely painful and totally terrorising. So Eric is portrayed as hating what was done to him, and hating Appius (even though it isn't that simple and Eric in the books articulates that it's not that simple) Sookie instead of hating how Eric has brought her low, learns to love it because it comes with orgasms or something. I know that the double standard is there - but not really why it's there.

It can't be that so many women are in rape-as-romance relationships, just because I don't think the statistics are that high, even if they were concentrated in this particular fandom. It could be the older demographic that doesn't really understand, and hasn't made the break from the old system, whereby women just "laid back and thought of England" - and who enjoyed lots of rapey romance books in their heyday. But it could also be that it's just because it's a fictional woman, who must be shown the error of her ways - through the quickest means possible, and that's by allowing her to get beatings and raped, in order to remove any independent thought and fire to satisfy the shipper's heart and HEA the couple as soon as possible.

I've noticed too that the theme takes a rise in response to the original works. I noticed that there was an upswing in such stories straight after Dead and Gone - more themes of Sookie being terrorised and abused, sometimes by Eric himself, and sometimes including Eric using Neave and Lochlan as his quasi-enforcers. There were lots of passages about how while Sookie didn't like being manhandled by Eric, she should have "learnt her lesson" by being tortured. That if she'd listened, she wouldn't have been tortured, and since rape and beatings are so much better than torture (apparently) they're the price you pay for "safety"....except from Eric. He gets carte blanche to do as he pleases, and Sookie's grateful for it. It still shows up occasionally too.

So too at the end of True Blood Season Four, there is an upswing in justification of Eric abusing and hurting Sookie to show the stupid bitch she shouldn't dare to reject him. It bleeds into SVM too, because people forget that True Blood is not the books, and the want to see bad stuff happen to Show Sookie is projected onto poor Book Sookie. It just happens to be more severe in the True Blood section, because there you can really go to town and relish Show Sookie's pain. I dunno - she may be deeply stupid, but deeply stupid people don't "deserve" that sort of treatment any more than other people do. My personal thought is that if Eric is a rapist abuser who only holds back as long as Sookie complies, Sookie was completely and utterly right to reject him first time round. He's just proven to me that as stupid as Show Sookie is, she was right all along, and I'd be the first to hand her a stake.

It can be seen as well after the violent bite in Dead Reckoning - it's not enough for Sookie to just either confront Eric and force the bastard to say he's sorry; or hell, even just ignore it. I haven't read either of those, but I have read Sookie apologising to Eric for making it necessary, and taking full responsibility for the bite. Like it was her fault that she made him do that, and all Eric needs to do is hurt her some more so she'll do as she's told, and she grovels like a good abused wife to show she's learned that he's mercurial and will hurt her at a moment's notice if he doesn't like her independent thought. It's lead to an upswing of forcing in fanfic, more "dominant" Eric - who is really Eric who doesn't take "No" as an answer - ie. see above what that's defined as.

Of course, usually, reviewers will contort themselves all kinds of ways to avoid saying anything bad about Eric, while feeling free to hate on Sookie as much as possible - making all of Eric's problems hers. It's possible that it's an extension of the Sookie hate that I've discussed before. That these reviewers love Eric to the point of obscenity, and even if he acts worse than Bill in the trunk (because his abuse isn't preceded by a week of torture and starvation but rather with deliberate malice and forethought) they will accept any version of him - even the rapist and abuser version; while relishing in the punishment that Sookie's character is undergoing. The common review for this sort of fic is all about how Sookie deserves her punishment, and Eric is "Poor Eric" - almost like that's his name.

It can't just be explained away as solely something that exists in SVM, or True Blood, because it doesn't just exist there. It's a pervasive theme in romance stories, and as it becomes less acceptable in mainstream romance, it gets pushed to the fringes - the independent internet publishers who sell ebooks, the "erotica", the fanfic. But like a bad penny, it turns up, and gets fervent followers - although it's not called "rape" because rape-as-romance does not market well - it's called ravishment/reluctance/forced sexual response/non-consent. Anything but the "R" word. I think that part of that is not knowing what rape is (joy for all the victims who will be wrongly judged by their peers when their rape trial is going on) and part of it is the refusal to allow it to be rape, because rape is not seen as romantic when it's called rape.

In general, I do think it has the potential to play out more often in supernatural stories. One of the most memorable scenes for me was in Dead Until Dark, which was included in the show as well - in the graveyard scene. It was a scene that for me crosses over the line into rape, as soon as Sookie says this:

Directing that energy in another way might save me.
Dead Until Dark, p. 181

That's not consent, freely and voluntarily given. However, this scene, while it speaks to Bill's complete unsuitability to be considered heroic, romantic, or a good suitor, it isn't a theme throughout the story - it isn't the sole means of sexual submission to Bill. I also think that while real life can be reflected - where things are dodgy and lines are crossed, that's all together different for rape-as-romance to become the mode with which the Sookie learns to always submit to her rapist all the time, and never gets a chance to make any choices because her rapist won't let her leave his lair.

It's my personal feeling that Bill was way too abusive to be a good boyfriend - using the line "I am vampire" as many abusers use the line "I am man" to explain their out-of-control behaviour. But there are plenty of men out there that use such lines - and I like the value of the reflection of similar situations in real life. Sookie in the graveyard scene takes the treatment - but so do many women in real life, particularly those with little or no relationship experience. Sookie is a most excellent reflection of those who don't understand what rape is - not understanding that consent needs to be given before the fact. Sookie herself doesn't say no during that scene, but she doesn't have much of a choice if she wants to live. It's one of the many reasons why I'm not for Bill as HEA - because if you're so out of control that you need to be redirected from killing your girlfriend, there's a severe problem.

But it's not full of similar themes - and tries to stay on the right side of the rape spectrum. We can see that vampire blood makes the human think more kindly of the vampire, and heightens the libido, but it doesn't really have such a direct connection to that particular vampire. Libido is not tied to one particular vampire, and there are no dreams and such. There are no prophecies, and there are no external reasons why consent is not needed. CH walks a very fine, but delineated line between sexual attraction vs. friendly attraction. Seeing Eric and Bill as more human does not mean that Sookie will have sex with them - it merely means that they have an advantage to being trusted by her, as a human would naturally have.

In opposition, blowing vampire blood effects out of proportion on True Blood makes the whole thing just that little more rapey. Because after all, Sookie doesn't have her libido heightened generally - she has it heightened towards a specific vampire, and has dreams and mental encounters with said vampire long before the act is consummated - without her conscious will.  The dreams are tied to a specific vampire - Jason dreams about Jessica, Sam about Bill, and Sookie about both Bill and Eric. Before the dreams, there is absolutely no relationship - Sookie herself professes to hate Eric at the time that she takes his blood. There's no more relationship with any of the other characters who have had V - suggesting that vampires, are, by and large altogether more rapist than not. I would say that a part of the squeamishness that some viewers felt at the amount of vampire blood poured down Show Sookie's neck is due to that creepy little feeling that it's all a bit too far on the rape spectrum, and free will and consent is kinda gone. 

In the name of skipping all that pesky relationship business, all the sexual relationships go from zero to sixty, with no build up, no significant glances, no clear attraction. One minute Sookie's slapping Eric (fuck so stupid) and saying she'd rather have cancer, and the minute she has his blood, it's all naked Eric dreams. Finally until she's broken down, and can't tell reality from dream (as in the episode where she thought she was dreaming) it's time that vampire blood trumped her free will and consent, and it's having sex with a guy who basically roofied you, and waited a couple of weeks for it to work. Ugh.

The books draw that line - they don't have vampire blood tied to one specific vampire, in a sexual way. While the initial effect is arousal, Sookie herself is made aware of the excitement before it ever goes there. The first time she gets blood from Bill, she's so injured that it's not sexually arousing, but then after, when she takes Bill's blood again, she knows that it has the effect of making her libido go through the roof. Sookie knows the effects of taking blood from Eric in Mississippi:

I couldn't have sex with a vampire, especially Eric, just because I found him
attractive - not when there would be such dire consequences. I was just too
strung out to enumerate those consequences to myself. I was an adult, I told
myself sternly; true adults don't have sex just because the other person is skilled and pretty.

Club Dead, p. 190

Sookie isn't attracted to Eric because of his blood - she's attracted to him because he's skilled and pretty, and finding it difficult to resist because she's strung out on vampire blood, which has heightened her libido. While Sookie and Eric have a sexual relationship after that, it's not as if they never thought of each other that way before, or that there aren't supporting circumstances, with or without vampire blood put into the mix. Sookie has the power to resist, and knows the difference between reality and fantasy - and doesn't have sex with Eric until she decides she wants to - as opposed to vampire blood in the show that builds the relationship and sexual connection almost instantly.

So maybe ultimately, the problem is that not that readers and writers like this particular rape-as-romance as a route to HEA, but rather, like Alan Ball, they're rather too blind to see the difference, and the fine line that the story has crossed; or that they don't care in the name of boning (just like AB). The books are careful to stay on the right side of that line merely because CH likes Sookie; whereas in fanfic, the author sometimes hates Sookie's guts, as made clear by their subtext - she's seen as "deserving" of her rape by Eric for failing to comply with his demands that he be allowed to use her body as he wishes. Combined with the fact that I have to define what rape is, and some women aren't too clear about what constitutes rape is perhaps at the root of that lack of understanding. Ultimately, all is made better in the rape-as-romance, because her rapist intends to be monogamous, and force Sookie, his victim/girlfriend to be monogamous as well.

I think it's easy to have little or no thought about rape-as-romance - but I think it's one of the things that we should really think about. It's not something that should just be mindlessly be consumed, as if it's a valid route to love. It's a valid route to a lifetime of abuse, and far too many women do that already.
Comments 
11th-Oct-2011 12:55 am (UTC)
Anonymous
I'm sure I've said this before, but I wish everyone would read your posts before ever reading any fanfiction. It is very easy to mindlessly consume, as you put it. I've never enjoyed reading about Sookie being raped, but I have learned a lot from your LJ that I might never have thought about otherwise. I think a lot of rape-as-romance readers would be horrified at themselves if they read what you've written and really thought about it. But maybe I'm being optimistic.

I was really glad to read a post on this subject anyway, it so needs to be pointed out, and talked about in a place where fans of these stories won't just keep insisting 'well you were warned that there would be dark themes, what is your problem?'

I definitely think a big part of all this is the lack of understanding of what rape is - isn't this always a problem, that people have a really narrow idea of rape, and if someone falls outside that definition (stranger ambushing you outside and raping you at gunpoint) then there is no sympathy for them? But a certain amount of that is willful ignorance so maybe pointing it out won't actually help all that much.

My most hated stories have always been those in which Eric kidnaps and rapes Sookie, while the author continually tells us that Eric is absolutely not a rapist. I've read more than a few times that Eric is not content with merely raping Sookie, but must force her to beg him to rape her. And of course Sookie is hating herself the whole time because she doesn't want to have sex with him but just can't stop her body responding to him. I read this as being deeply disturbing, it's absolutely clear to me that all us readers are being treated to the story of Sookie being psychologically and physically tortured, and degraded in every possible way. I find it mind boggling that so many people can read that exact same story and yet cheer it on, and think that Sookie is LUCKY! I have said before that it would be less disturbing to read about Eric just holding her down and raping her while she screams. At least then Sookie might have a better chance of recovery, and we wouldn't all be expected to rejoice in her rape.

Another thing - I am so sick of reading that 'it isn't harming anyone'.

AoifeNZ
11th-Oct-2011 04:46 am (UTC)
I think that's a little optimistic. :D Most of them would have a complex architecture as to why they aren't reading a rape-as-romance, and how Sookie had feelings for Eric, or really wanted it. If they *did* think about it, they'd sustain that for maybe a week, and then go back to old patterns, and review with relish.

It does need discussing, because really, the themes are dark - which I can more than handle (fanfic is never as dark as what I've read happening in real life to victims) but it's the idea that it's acceptable that's the problem.

Yeah - the narrow idea of rape is that if it ends up hurting you, it's rape, but if you come out of it not much changed, or you can cope, that's not really rape. Victims who take it public get bashed because they're surrounded by a whole heap of people who think what happened to them is not rape.

I hate those ones too - and the author is wrong - Eric is soooo a rapist in that scenario. It works that way in real life as well - women who are beaten and raped until they just come to see it as normal and accept it. It works - but it's not romantic and it's not love. It boggles the mind that Sookie getting tortured by her rapist could be so fervently supported.

I would argue that it is harming someone - it's harming all those girls it happens to in real life, who will get the idea that it's acceptable - from the story itself or from the reviewers who are influenced by the story itself. I can't imagine that any of those who support Eric biting Sookie hard in DR actually encouraging women not to take violence from their husbands. That attitude springs from somewhere, and this sort of story just reinforces that belief.
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11th-Oct-2011 01:18 am (UTC) - great post!
Anonymous
sadly, the people who need to read this probably aren't, but i'm glad you're putting this out there. the distinction between rape + romance vs BDSM is definitely an important one that you've articulated well. as someone who does education and outreach and works with survivors of domestic violence and sexual assault, i've often wanted to send the power and control wheel to certain authors in the SVM fandom and have seen plots in popular stories read like the cycle of violence. these types of stories are the main reason i read so little fanfic these days.

11th-Oct-2011 04:54 am (UTC) - Re: great post!
No, this post smacks of thinking, as do most of my posts. And they don't even have any sex scenes. So I'd say not.

It drives BDSM peeps absolutely nuts to see the Surprise!BDSM thing going on - with all the boundaries and lines it crosses. It's no different just because it's fetish behaviour - there's no get out of jail free card to be a sadistic rapist and call it BDSM.

I agree about the stories that read like the cycle of violence - all the hallmarks of cutting her off from her friends, forcing her to comply, threatening her if she doesn't, and using her own body against her. It's standard for Eric to "joke" about killing Sookie - and she actually laughs or shrugs it off. I read one just recently where Sookie was bashed for being "flippant" to Eric's tale of abuse at the hands of Appius, and then swallowed down Eric's threat of draining her - and this is acceptable. It doesn't make it better or acceptable just because the male is a vampire male - it makes it scarier and more of a possibility that he'll follow through on his threats.
11th-Oct-2011 06:08 am (UTC) - I wish I had found this blog before reading SVM fanfiction
Anonymous
I am new to this fandom, and am more than a little taken aback by how many rape-as-romance stories there are. I'm more appalled by how many don't warn that there will be rape. And I'm downright pissed when the AN specifically says there will be "dark themes" but no rape ... then go on to have Eric commit digital assault with a conscious or unconscious Sookie in the same chapter.
11th-Oct-2011 06:18 am (UTC) - Re: I wish I had found this blog before reading SVM fanfiction
It's kinda surprising that it's such a popular theme. There's not a lot of thought going into what is being written and consumed, and it's all become somewhat of a cesspit. The bad practice started years ago, and it's the rare fanfic writer who does it as it's done in other fandoms. Mostly it's justified with "But he's a vampire". That's as may be - but he's also a rapist.

Heh - yeah, I've read that one. The assertion that there is no rape, and then, surprise!rape. The whole punishment theme that goes on too is pretty damn disturbing.
11th-Oct-2011 02:20 pm (UTC)
Up until recently I explained away the reading, enjoying and defending "rape as romance" by believing that these women (and it's mostly women who read this stuff) identify, on some level, with the victim, and want to believe that it's okay because it'll all end in love - therefore hers (the reader's) will too...

That was until I read your Mary Sue post... and that you pointed out that a lot of Erics are Mary Sues...

Which then leads me to think that it's not Sookie the Reader/Writer identifies, but Eric. Suggesting that the reader/writer actually feels more to the perpetrator than the victim... which scares me somewhat, but, thinking on human nature, doesn't really surprise me.

I'm going to have to ponder this further.
11th-Oct-2011 02:43 pm (UTC)
Hehe - great minds think alike. Lookie what I wrote below (while you wrote this) :-D
11th-Oct-2011 02:40 pm (UTC) - Thank you :-)
I`m so glad you chose to do this one and I know it`s a theme we`ve discussed a lot.
Rape as romance (or rape as anything but a crime) has been my biggest surprise when I ventured into the world of fantasy and/or romance a couple of years ago. It seems to me that the fantasy-romance fics have more rape as romance than any other romance. Supernatural men can freely decide that human women want them (from how they smell, from reading their minds, from "testing" their wetness or from just being a hot SOB) and use his mental and/or physical strength to "convince" the human woman that he`s right.

I`ve given it a lot of thought and have a few theories as to why books/fics like these are so popular.

1, The female readers do not identify themselves with the weak female in the story but rather with the strong male. Since many women can not fathom strong women being attractive, they will not read fics with truly strong women (and I have to add here - a lot of these fics pretend to have strong females because they are "sassy" and talk back, but they are the weak or weakened part in the relationship with the male). The dichotomy weak and strong may be wrong here but bear over with my lacking English :-)
I see in reviews of series I love (Sookie, Jane True) that reviewers hate it when the male is not there or the relationship is not consummated. I don`t think that`s necessarily because they want the heroine to be happy with the one man in this world who can give her happiness (haha), but more that they`ve put themselves in the male`s place or at least invested a heap into him and therefor can`t accept that he`s not in the center of the story (I always want to recommend said reviewers to remember who the leading person in those series is).

2, As you said: Some women just don`t know what rape is, which is very sad. I do think a lot of women have accepted or endured sex they never wanted for one reason or the other and that has blurred the picture for them. I mean, the whole concept in the English language about *giving up* sex says something. Or maybe I`m reading too much into it? Back in the days we were told to close our eyes and think of whatever country we lived in, but now we have the extra pressure that we actually have to be BOTH whores and madonnas at the same time.

3, As you also touched into: readers and writers are lazy. Why spend your time reading/writing about people becoming interested in each other and slowly building a relationship when they can skip all that and go straight to "sex" (I have a hard time looking at rape as sex)? You would be amazed to see how quickly people can go from not knowing each other or even hating each other to fucking like bunnies and finding out the other person is their one and only in those books. We`re talking hours or days - and that can only happen if the guy puts pressure on the girl. At least if she`s a "good girl". Which leads me to ...

4, Some writers/readers can`t accept female sexuality as something standing on its own feet and need a male to "ignite" it. Good girls aren`t horny, sort of. You see that a lot even in stories with no rape. It`s so very rarely the female who initiates sex and if she does there is a reason for it (drunkenness, some supernatural thing etc) and she is embarrassed afterwards. In rape turns to romance the woman is without "guilt" (I seem to be using a lot of "" :-P).

Those were my thoughts on this very important issue. I`m sad to say that I`ve found rape=romance in so many popular books and series out there and it makes me sad to see how everything is accepted as long as the hero is over six feet tall, has broad shoulders and chiseled muscles. Blah.
11th-Oct-2011 04:37 pm (UTC) - Re: Thank you :-)
They do have more rape in them - but I think it's because it spills over from the romance genre. Traditionally in fantasy and horror, there have been rapes, but they're not romantic devices. It's the new genre of supernatural romance that seems to be blurring the line, and the bad penny turns up again.

I have to agree with you that they've invested in the man - they've taken a secondary character and put him at the top of the hierarchy. Perhaps they've been trained by all the males who always were primary characters, and so this is familiarity to them. But in some cases, they'll deify the guy just to put him at the top of the pyramid, like they do with Eric.

Heh - I have no problem with screwing like bunnies almost immediately. But then you can't really turn that into a romance, can you? So forcing the girl into one room with a psycho rapist means that she'll eventually fall for him (read as 'get abused enough to submit').

I agree there too - it is a way to escape guilt, and be seen without any consequences. But I figure that that's what PWP is for - it doesn't have to be a way to love, just leave it as a sexual fantasy without making out like it's something we could all have if we found the right man to rape us.

Heh - yeah. You should know that all rapists are greasy, small and weasel-looking. That's how Sookie couldn't tell immediately looking at Bill. He was all 6ft tall, with a Grecian profile. Luckily, fanfic rectifies that, and makes him the Picture of Dorian Gray.
11th-Oct-2011 04:13 pm (UTC) - Thanks
Anonymous
Thanks for posting this ariticle, it's good to know interesting facts. I am disturbed after showing season 3 of TB even with the part of Bill and Lorena, I feel sorry for Lorena, not sure how I feel but i am discussed and Tara story with Franklin ewww. TB becoming a show for shocking factors and Alan Ball and writers should be ashame of themselves. And to think there are a lot of people out there still rooting for TB only for the sex and blood the show is showing but don't really understand what they are really watching. Nowadays it's all about rating.
11th-Oct-2011 04:40 pm (UTC) - Re: Thanks
Lorena's got a lot of power over Bill in the context of consent though - she can always force him, but he can never force her to have sex.

Season 4 seems to have become all about rape-as-romance. There's Crystal and Jason, there's Bill and Eric shoving blood down Sookie's throat, there's Tommy fucking Luna, there's Antonia being raped. It's a nightmare of just going on violating the characters, and no episode is apparently complete without a little raping going on.
11th-Oct-2011 08:01 pm (UTC)
This subject vexes me. Maybe it's because I listened to Bikini Kill and L7 in my formative years but I've never, and never will, understand the attraction of rape-to-romance or Sabine fantasy stories.

The fact that rape seems to be such a throwaway act these days - TB is the worst offender I've seen recently. "Rape who you like - there's no consequence!" It sends a horrible message to young men and women - as do stories where the female protagonist is raped but then falls in love with her abuser.

There's a SVM fic called 'It's about power' by AtAVenture. From the first chapter, it was clear to me that the story was a raw description of being in a very abusive relationship. But the amount of reviewers who left messages raving about how hot it was turned my stomach. I guess your perception depends on your life experience ...
12th-Oct-2011 06:40 am (UTC)
I've never really gotten why it's a good idea to have a romance with any kind of forcing. Maybe because I figure that there's more value in a romance where the person's value is clear, not a romance where they're really shitty, but you're forced to be with them anyway. That's not exactly something to aspire to.

It seems to be something used for simple melodrama, and as if it's a good way to get things stirred up. But without any complexity to it. Although I did see a really great portrayal in "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" which kind of alleviated that popcorn-rape type scenario.

Oh yes - I was speaking to Thyra about that ages ago - she told me how many reviewers thought that was "hot" which is disturbing - you can get what sort of vibe she's laying down in the first chapter. I was shocked that so many people are so dim.
11th-Oct-2011 11:53 pm (UTC) - Rape as Romance
Anonymous
Well said and cathartic as usual. ;)

Thank you for pointing out that Dark Eric wouldn’t lighten up for good once Sookie “comes to her senses” and stops resisting. There might be a honeymoon phase (or not), but there would very likely be no permanent reforming on his part. Couples’ therapy isn’t even recommended under such circumstances. It’s too dangerous because it’s too likely the abuser will act violently again.

By statistics alone, I, too, would guess that there are plenty of women in the SVM fandom who themselves are in abusive relationships. On top of that, I would agree that women are under the influence of more subtle & insidious societal influences that need to be actively rejected if they’re not to be internalized. (Ugh…really? 70 fucking percent??? ) A young person’s life is loaded with such influences. I would venture to say that in the U.S., in some ways it’s worse now than it was 40 or so years ago. Here, advertising policies protected children up to 1978, when Congress voted to take away the regulatory powers of the Federal Trade Commission. Things significantly worsened in 1984, when the Federal Communications Commission removed all of the protective regulations concerning commercialized TV. The genderized crap that gets marketed aggressively to girls and boys today is astonishing. Barbie, that highly sexualized plaything, looks positively quaint. And even if you choose not to watch commercial TV, the content often pushes the so-sexy-so soon message. It’s very clear: females are sex objects. So to snag the GP at whatever cost says something special about you, right? And for boys, it’s all about guns and fighting and conquering. (I know I’m ranting and generally preaching to the choir here.)

The upswing in acquiescent Sookies following the DAG torture and the bite sounds like a traumatized kind of response to me—a grasping at even the illusion of control over having to endure the victimization again. Yes, taking on the blame as a way of gaining some sort of control is a twisted way of coping. It’s very concerning, and seems to point to more than subtle influences.

It *is* a fine line that CH walks, but she does it w/ a lot of thought and reasoning and purpose and places everything well w/in a context. I’ve admired CH for her willingness to write Sookie’s flaws. There are times when she pushes her pretty damn far out on a limb. We’re meant to root for her, and perhaps even to learn from her, not to saw the whole freaking limb off. Perhaps the “problem” arises in that CH doesn’t fully spell it all out and leaves a lot to the devices of her readers. But as you say, not everyone thinks about it carefully & w/ AB’s influence—taking things such as the sexual attraction out of context and blowing it way out of proportion—it becomes even worse.

The “why” always interests me. As usual, there are no easy, pat answers, but thanks for the thorough post and food for thought and your support of women. Rape as romance is so painfully wrong. JanineMNM
12th-Oct-2011 07:43 am (UTC) - Re: Rape as Romance
Dark Eric is the worst abuser ever, and Regular Eric - both human and vampire can be pretty bad. I don't understand why you'd want to put them in a relationship where he's way worse than the books themselves.

Oh man, doormat Sookie is driving me nuts right now. I can have my choice of Sookie who'll wait around for years, having lacklustre relationships until the Saintly Eric is "ready" and then she'll apologise for that, and take any treatment he wants to dish out. Or the Sookie who dared to choose to live her own life, and then fervently apologises that that made Eric break up with her, and she comes back years later to beg him to see she's lost all of her backbone. I'd tell him to fuck off and give him up as a bad job. But then, I like me.

That's completely right - the societal influences are helping women define themselves by what they fuck. It's not rated on whether he's a great guy, but if he's a dominant, powerful Alpha male, who fights things and kills people.

It wasn't usually accompanied by anything other than the same old tune that Sookie's worth less than Eric. It was a predominating attitude of the time - authors lamenting how hard it was for Eric to put up with Sookie's torture. One memorable response was something along the lines of "Fuck Sookie if she can't see how much that hurt Eric" because apparently, torture doesn't hurt Sookie. I was appalled at the hate Sookie endured for being tortured, and not taking Eric's feelings into consideration - steeped with quite a bit of misogyny.

I do think that the lack of thinking - and the same ability to think - is a real problem. Lines are parroted mindlessly like "Sookie's a lot of trouble" without ever considering why that was said. Sookie is therefore deemed "trouble" without ever understanding the context of the remark, and the meaning of it. While that's really great for some readers, for others, the other implications just go over their heads. Sookie is trouble.

The "why" gets me so curious. Sometimes I think about contacting people and asking them, but I figure they would see that as an attack, so I don't. I have to live with just observing the natural environment until I have some sort of explanation for the whole thing.
12th-Oct-2011 01:30 pm (UTC)
Anonymous
There are Bill rape fics? Urgh.

PMR, this post makes me very, very glad that I have reached the point where I won't touch 95% of the fic the fandom is churning out. I had encountered some of this kind of thing in the past with SVM fics, but it's disturbing to learn that it's become so pervasive.

One of the most troubling aspects to me of using SVM, specifically, for rape-as-romance is CH's background as a rape survivor. I don't know, it's just hard for me to wrap my mind around how one can square one's conscience with using these characters in such a manner, knowing that (and most if not all of the writers DO know about it). Especially since she has depicted sexual abuse and violation as haunting both Eric and Sookie in the series, and it's clear that her depiction is informed by her own real-life experience and observations (eg the cleanliness rituals). Doesn't depicting Sookie in that way cause any kind of a twinge in these writers' minds, cause even the slightest amount of reflection on what they're doing, knowing that the person who created them has been raped for real, and there was nothing 'romantic' about it?

(That is also why the rapeyness that's all up in True Blood now is particularly egregious. Somehow, I don't think CH ever imagined when she sold Alan Ball the rights that he'd have Jason gang-raped and then laugh it off in an interview as turnabout for Jason having been such a manwhore.)

I do think that for a good number of those writing this stuff, these depictions are born from the desire to see Sookie submit to Eric and be subjugated and humiliated by him, while still allowing him to have her by his side, wanting him - because Book Sookie would get the hell away from him if he did any of that shit. But this way, they get to have Eric collect the pound of flesh they feel is due him for enduring Sookie's independent personhood, get to have him put her in her place, while still having their couple together. 'Love Eric to the point of obscenity' indeed.

The other day, I learned that a writer who'd written some stories I'd liked in the past had begun a new series, so I went to check it out. It was full of Dark Eric treating Sookie like crap because she'd hurt him so much, so I had to give it a pass. However, some morbid impulse made me peruse its reviews. An excerpt from one in particular: 'Can't wait to see her suffer...'

Says it all, doesn't it?

- Emma
12th-Oct-2011 01:54 pm (UTC)
There are Bill rape fics. I read numerous ones where Bill is raped by Eric, or raped by some random man. I even read one where Bill was raped by Eric, with Sookie joining in for 'sexual exploration' and Eric gave a nice lecture (when doesn't he) about how one would rape a man - something Sookie needs to know all about, apparently.

I can read all manner of shitty stories of Sookie taking all that Eric can dish out. The new wave is "What if Eric broke up with Sookie and she was heartbroken for 2 decades until she finds him again and grovels back to him on her knees, and swears she'll be a good girl?" The authors that write that shit are prolific as well - so you can have 6 versions from the same fucking author with submissive permutations. Then all the other authors think "Oooh, that works!" and do their own fucking version.

I do think that it's particularly terrible that they treat CH's work as a way to condone rape. But then, they don't have sympathy for Sookie, so why for any other woman? They're the same people who make sure it's hard to convict for rape, and they're the same people who condemn others. I feel bad for CH, but I bet that she's had this happen before.

I don't think CH envisioned the sheer amount of rape-as-momentary-angst either.

Book Sookie would stake him - just like she threatened to do with Mickey. Slavery has been on her mind with just the bond, let alone some insecure short-dick man who can't let you walk two feet from him. It does seem to be the way that they punish her for thinking about herself...and reward Eric for doing the same.

Yeah - I find those reviews very enlightening - they really do say it all. They love to watch Sookie suffer. If Eric might be beating her too much, it's off to therapy or whatever she needs, until she falls in love with him. Why won't she love him?!?!?!111
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12th-Oct-2011 08:34 pm (UTC) - This is the exact reason why I do not like FanFic.
I was shocked to see that people were writing fanfic stories about RAPE. To say I was horrified is an understatement. I will never condone anyone who writes rape stories for pleasure. I find it hard to watch or read anything that has rape or abuse of Children, women or men for that matter since it disturbs me to my core. So like you I was unhappy when I would click on a fanfic thinking I would get a story about Sookie and Eric and then the theme would quickly turn to RAPE without warning. It is shocking to think that most people view RAPE in a nonchalant way. We see it on TV and Movies all the time. For example I'll use True Blood since this is in the theme of what we are talking about. I noticed that no one really talks about the fact that Jason was Raped in Season four with any sort of despondency. It happened but people don't seam to remember it or care that he was a victim of something so horrible. I cant even bring myself to re-watch it and I hoped that the shows writers would at least acknowledge the aftermath of being raped with Jason but they never did we never got to see him deal with it in any way, they just had him act as if it was not a big deal with him making comments like this: Jason Stackhouse you have fucked to many hot women let's see how you like it. Why would a rape victim say this? I don't know if the writers thought that this would be funny but I found it completely unfeeling and crass. He was raped and instead of dealing with what happened to him in a realistic way they had him dreaming about having sex with someone else right after it happened. I don't think anyone deserves to be RAPED and anyone who thinks that, is a psychopath. The fact that this happens on TV is part of the reason why there are so many misconceptions about RAPE in the first place.

12th-Oct-2011 08:51 pm (UTC) - Re: This is the exact reason why I do not like FanFic.
I don't blame you for not liking fanfic for that reason. It's not something that you should have to get a big surprise about, and unfortunately, it seems that there's a lot of relish making Sookie - the least resourced character, with few friends, no support network and little power - go through rape and abuse as a way to love.

I don't know why the hell they included the whole rape thing - because the male victims I've known (and I've known 3) do not just shrug it off or consider it a just punishment for sleeping around.

I have to agree with you about the fact that it happens on TV is the reason it's treated so badly in fanfic. It would be almost impossible for it to get treated well, because what real rape victim would write the perspective she experiences to put it up and like AtAVenture mentioned above endure the reviews of "That's hot"? Once the readers find out it's not going to be HEA with Eric, they'd stop reading - and let's face it, the ESN hounds who support this dross *aren't* going to read Bill fic.
14th-Oct-2011 03:39 am (UTC)
Anonymous
Yeah, it's hard to know what to say to this one. It's so yuck, and you'd think that would be obvious that it's yuck, in the same way it should be obvious that rape isn't about sex and desiring someone uncontrollably, or else elderly women would be safe in their beds. But people are terminally confused, I guess.

As I said once before, the worst book I ever read was from the young adults section of the library, and I read it, I think, the month I turned 12. It must have been written in the '70's and had a 16 yr old girl in London being raped by a popstar after a party, and then him tracking her down, finding out she's pregnant (and had to leave home to be an unmarried mother) and they all end up together. The terrible thing is this was written for teenagers, and at 12, as much as the rape made me feel uncomfortable, you still have those thoughts of 'Wow! Some popstar REALLY loved her!' Yeah, so obviously a few other people read that book too. And nothing else since.

So I have to admit to reading very little in the way of fanfiction these days, and certainly nothing involving rapey old vampires who deserve to be staked. Although I still find it hard to stomach the AH stories with Sookie having a terrible trauma in her past, but any legacy of that sexual abuse is wiped away by Eric and she's down on her knees or bending over before she knows it, just from the sight of his magnificent dick. Yeah, that must be horribly insulting to those who have lived through that kind of experience in real life.
Ooshka
14th-Oct-2011 08:16 am (UTC)
It is yuck - and people do seem terminally confused...or they just don't really care.

Ugh. That's the most hideous book - and there are a lot of ones just like that too. I don't really remember reading the rapey romance books - but it's possible I did, and just don't remember. They all blur together after a while, and I moved onto literature soon after.

To be honest, it's become a bit abysmal. Even if I didn't have high standards, it would still be abysmal. And those stories where sexual abuse is wiped away by seeing Eric - yeah, they are pretty insulting. There seems to be this idea that you just "get over" it - but most victims have signs for years, if not forever. Having sex with Bill didn't wipe out Uncle Bartlett's abuse, nor did having sex with Eric. Sookie still has hygiene rituals.
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28th-Feb-2012 11:08 am (UTC) - A dark horse
Anonymous
Honestly I don't see the need for this exhaustive review of stories that essentially don't fucking exist. I should know since I write these kind of stories and I'm basically the only one who does.

Who cares if someone wants to read about something that you DON'T? Get over it, its just fan fiction. The truth is that the world is consumed with and drawn to darkness. It's why people watch movies like "Saw" and last house on left.

You can't change people or the world. The OP of this is clearly intelligent but I would have to question the reason for this long long debate of something that you can't change and that really doesn't matter. Real rape is appalling and I would never condone it. But I do write dark stories that occasionaly feature it. If you hate what I write don't read it, but don't sit around railing against something just because you can't handle it. The majority of FF on that site is all the same boring mushy stuff where Sookie gets knocked up and has twins blah blah. That to me is just as offensive in its lack of creativity, originality or depth or passion.
28th-Feb-2012 12:46 pm (UTC) - Re: A dark horse
Ah, because real people who write them exist in the same reality as me? Your stories might be fictional, but you exist on the same earth as me, telling me how it's totally okay to write about raping women because you're a woman. And you're fooling yourself if you think you're the only one who writes this shit. Maybe in your arrogance you think you are the only one, but you're depressingly uniform with all the rest of your kind.

Who cares if someone wants to write about a subject on their own private journal? It's just a web page. If you don't like it, don't read it. Close the tab. Oh, but then you wouldn't make a *complete* hypocrite of yourself and leave me some long complaining diatribe, and then baw like a little baby if someone leaves you a bad review.

Intelligent debate is what intelligent people do. They don't go round bashing things with clubs to see how they work.

And proving *once again* that writers like you can't read good, I have no problems handling it. I'm a criminologist. See, what I know is that most of you are pussies who insulate yourselves against reality, and lose yourselves in the fantasies of rape instead of examining your own internalised misogyny.

Lack of creativity, originality, depth or passion is a *feature* of rape-as-romances. As long as society has existed, they've been writing tales about how Zeus fell in love with Leda and raped her with love. Lol - you guys thinking you're original? Fucking hilarious. About as original as Greek myth, all the way up to 1950's literature. *Real original*.
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21st-Jul-2012 04:15 pm (UTC) - This was really interesting. Thank you!
Although I find it ironic that reading about rape is... interesting... just like telling a friend who works on a rape-related hotline with the police for rape cases is a "great job" before saying "I mean I really hope you don't have any work... I mean..." Yeah.

I first learned about this series while watching bits of "True Blood" with my Mom, who had been watching the series for a while at the time. Mom and I don't share tons of interests (I share more with my dad), so this was one of those "well, this looks kind of interesting, maybe I should check it out, and we could bond over it" things. And I'm always a fan of reading the book before watching the TV show/movie/documentary to see how it fits (especially for background info, since I had no idea what was going on in the show)... so I checked out book 1. And I then wrote it off as an especially silly romance series, which is worsened by taking place in an apparently really racist, bad-Christian section of a fictionalized version of America, got bored after a few chapters and left.

I don't know why my Mom likes it (although she's had a growing "don't care for it" attitude for the books, I think because they're repetitive). I've always thought it's because of the sex bits... one of those "I don't get any, so if I watch other people, it makes up for it". I guess... cause I don't understand the attraction to porn and that's what I figured it was... But this makes me wonder, because my stepfather is not a physical abuser (no idea on the sex angle... and I don't really want to know, although if he ever did that... well, would things change around here). He's a mental one, though (from what I've gathered). And it makes me wonder if she connects to some of these characters, at least subconsciously... Or I'm reading too much into it. She doesn't analyze stories nearly as much as I do (heck, she enjoys the Twilight series and "50 Shades of Gray" for no reason she's been able to explain to me and gets upset when I ask her deeper questions about why - and I'm not insulting her, she's an engineer, I'm an English major, it happens). "True Blood" has a number of physically attractive men who find numerous opportunities to lose articles of their clothing in it. That might be all.

Thank you again for writing this.

Edited at 2012-07-21 04:20 pm (UTC)
21st-Jul-2012 10:25 pm (UTC) - Re: This was really interesting. Thank you!
:) I know what you mean. :)

Definitely, the books are far superior to the show, particularly now. The show has become nonsensical and silly. The books are going strong. Whereas the books focus on the personal journey of Sookie, interspersed with moral dilemmas and growth, the show focuses on relationships. Which means that its scope is abysmal as far as what issues it deals with. While the first book deals with romances, that quickly stops - and the romance takes a definite side story status to other themes.

I suspect your mother doesn't care for the books because they're not romances. Lots of women thought they were (and they've been put in the romance shelf at bookshops) and they haven't proven to be that genre at all. They are in fact, urban fantasy. There has been a lot of complaining and protesting that the author refuses to focus plots solely on the romance aspect of the book. Complains that the romance bits got like a couple of chapters in total, and we had to hear about "boring" things like vampire politics, and what's going on with themes of tolerance and competing supernatural interests.

I also think that it's the simple fantasy that draws some women in - that there will be a guy so obsessed with them that he'll have to have them - even if that means raping them. The idea of having a man so obsessed with you is immensely appealing if you've both never been touched by violence, and if you've never really, truly felt wanted. And if the heroine of the piece never actually uses the word "rape" then it's easy to ignore the fact that outside of her head, all the guy is hearing is "No" and going ahead anyway.
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